This blog is a place for civil and respectful discussion regarding topics related to the Navy's current list of proposed outlying landing fields (OLFs) in North Carolina and Virginia.
All Gares County residents must ban together and present a united opposition to OLF. We have at least a 1 in 5 chance of having our quiet and peaceful way of life destroyed by the NAVY placing an OLF in the Sandbanks area. If we become passive in our resistance the odds will go way up. Don't let OLF happen in Gates County!
I have been very dissatisfied with the answeres from our elected officials. Many are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They want to encourage a relationship with the Navy but also do not want voters to know that they are doing so. We need to call and write and let them know that votes count. Lieutenant Governor Beverly Perdue's office could care less.... isn't she running for office? We need to make more noise.
I was thinking maybe a bulk mailer to the entire Gates County area with letters or templates with self addressed envelopes to all the contacts would help get people signing and mailing letters out?? There are tons of people out here that haven't even heard of it yet. If we can spam these elected officials with letters it might make a dent?? If we spent $1 per info packet and managed to bulk mail the most at risk areas it may be money well spent. Signs are great and all that ..but the big wigs in office don't come out here and see our yard signs or out t-shirts. But they may notice a hand full of protest letters on their desk on a daily basis for months and months. Helping the people put these together will get a ton of people mailing them... and most of the people who don't know about the OLF yet don't know what a computer is let alone have internet access. So this could get results from many people yet to learn what they can do to help.
In a letter received 3/12/08 from Lieutenant Governor Beverly Perdue she said "I continue to be supportive of an Outlying Landing Field in North Carolina, but I do not believe it should be forced on a community that does not want it." The Navy has selected TWO prospective sites in North Carolina. The citizens at both sites are very firm in there opposition to OLF. Why does she still support the Navy wasting taxpayers money for the enviromental studies etc. that they are doing. We must continue to inform her and all are representatives that they work for us, the citizens, who elected them and can throw them out of office.
This is a link to a blog in the Virginia Pilot concerning OLF in Gates County. Please log on and post your comments and concerns. Some of the posts go a little off subject. Read posts from bottom to top.
WHEN THE NAVY BEGINS FLYING OVER THE PROPOSED OLF SIGHTS AT 600 FEET THE CITIZENS WILL NOT GET A REAL EXAMPLE OF THE JET NOISE BECAUSE THE JETS WILL BE FLYING SLOWER THAN NORMAL AND THEY WILL NOT BE LANDING AND TAKING OFF WHICH WOULD INVOLVE MORE NOISE AT GROUND LEVEL PLUS WHEN THEY TAKE OFF AGAIN THEY WILL BE AT FULL POWER. HEARING THE ENTIRE PROCESS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE REAL NOISE IMPACT.IF ANYONE EVER HAS LIKE I HAVE YOU WILL NEVER FORGET IT.
This is an e mail in response to my questioning Delegate Marshall's comment at the shad planking that the Navy is not yet sure the new joint task strike fighter will be at Oceana. Va Pilot letter to the editor 5-18-08. MR. Yahn, THank you for your kind comments.
My original letter to the Plot was longer (see below).
I don't have documentation, but my parents have told me of all the WW II accomodations civilans made for the War effort.
I am working with an experienced BRAC attorney on this project, Barry Steinberg, formerly a JAG officer.
Here is the letter:
A recent Pilot editorial was only partially correct in relaying my views on a proposal to build an outlying landing field in one or more southern Virginia counties.
I said at the recent Shad Plank fest that the Navy, which at this point has NOT determined that Oceana will even be eligible for stationing the new joint strike fighter, is premature in looking for a landing field for planes that may never be stationed at Oceana.
Until the Navy makes that decision, and makes it irrevocably, eminent domain takings are premature.
What local public officials do or fail to do does affect others, as is evident from the complete failure of Virginia Beach officials to control residential growth near Oceana’s flight paths. Taking private property for a public purpose, especially land held in families for generations should only be done as a last resort, for a clear public purpose, and then only when all options have been thoroughly thought through.
That has not been the case with OLF. But hey, this is only a quarter of a billion dollars to take some farmers’ land, and in Washington, what is that? How about a real cheap solution? Did the Navy consider buying window blinds for homes around Fentress OLF in Chesapeake? Surely, Virginians are patriotic enough and concerned about the waste of tax resources to make this accommodation. WW II Americans painted street lights so enemy pilots could not ID targets.
No one challenges the ability, skill and dedication of our Armed Forces to execute national security missions. But our Constitution provides for civilian control and oversight of America’s military including weapons systems or real property acquisition, and ultimately the conduct and goals, though not the day to day operations of a war.
For example, the US led Multi-National Iraq Command could not demonstrate accountability that weapons and associated services were actually delivered to the Iraq Security Forces, and the Pentagon’s Inspector General November, 07 report found no “reasonable assurance that Iraq Security Forces Fund achieved the intended results, that resources were used in a manner consistent with the mission, and that the resources were protected from waste and mismanagement.” Translation, terrorists, or dissidents fomenting civil war in Iraq could have received US paid for weapons.
That is not all, Congress’s own General Accountability Office reviewed 95 weapons programs in 2007 and disclosed in April, 08 weapons system cost overruns of $295 Billion. DOD will invest roughly $900 Billion by 2013 on weapons systems. Every federal tax dollar wastefully spent is one dollar less to spend in the war on terror or social security beneficiaries.
The GAO found that NONE of the systems met “the best practices standards for mature technologies, stable design, and mature production processes—all prerequisites for achieving planned cost, schedule, and performance outcomes. … This lack of disciplined systems engineering affects DOD’s ability to develop sound, executable business cases for programs.”
Failure of Congress to exercise oversight of ballooning weapon’s systems and procurement costs constitutes a real threat to families, to real property ownership, and to national security because it makes citizens less supportive of defense spending.
Congress needs to realize that citizens are not bottomless ATM machines.
I have been involved with this OLF issue for a few years. At one point, the 60 dB DNL contour line was slated to be less then a mile from my house.
I lived in Virginia Beach during the 1990s when that city was fighting for the planes of Cecil Field. At that time, I questioned the wisdom being displayed by the local government for begging for such a noisy plane and for placing those planes at Oceana when there was already a movement about noise and planes brewing. I lived inside what would be the 60 dB DNL contour line, it was noisy and for us in NC, it will be noisier as the ambient noise level is much lower then found in VB.
I did not realize when I bought my house that an OLF was this close to me. I went to a meeting sponsored by the Perquimans County. I got involved.
I have had the opportunity to read the Navy's NEPA process studies. I have studied them.
The Navy chose to look to other sites, or softer targets. An OLF will not help your community no matter what incentive package is presented by the Navy.
Think about it, part of the jobs being offered by the Navy is gate guard and fire fighter. The Navy is claiming that those jobs will pay $68,000 (plus benefits). Who beliefs that a gate guard will be getting that kind of money? The Navy thinks you will. when these gate guards were slated for my county, they were only going to get $20,000 avg/year. Once people started talking "incentives" the price of these jobs started to climb. The FEIS had 50 jobs for $1 million. At the 18 Sept site unveiling, the price went up to $58,000 and now at the scoping meeting, its up to $68,000 (plus benefits). This is the kind of stuff the Navy will do. From 2003 to 2008, these gate guards have gotten one heck of a pay raise and they have not worked one hour!
Some things to watch out for with the Navy. They will change their story frequently. They will provide little information. They can engage in questions, but are good for about 2 maybe 3 questions, then you will have exceeded their knowledge level. They will use terms interchangeably on you, such as dB and dB DNL. If you are also using those terms, but are out of context, they will not correct you, but allow you to stumble on answering your questions knowing the terms are wrong.
When you do ask questions and take them beyond their knowledge level, they will try to get away from you, or as they told me, I am through with you.
Right now, you have one of two opportunities to ask the Navy questions. Because the Navy failed to provide any data or information at the scoping meeting, ask any and every question you can think of. Write it down and submit it. you can do it at http://www.olfeis.com/comment.aspx until 7 June.
The second opportunity will be when the Navy presents you with the DEIS in two years. If the Navy does what they historically do, you will be given 45 days to digest and comment upon numerous documents and many pages of information. The Navy will bury so much information and bombard you with it that you will not digest it all. They will then say, well, you had your chance, and you did not ask that.....
From the FEIS, pg 12-1. An OLF is not required if most or all of the super hornet aircraft are homebased at Oceana. Yet the Navy insists that they now need a second OLF. The Navy did not present your community with anything that would counter that statement.
The Navy has no plan or desire to correct the problems found around Oceana and Fentress. They just want to take your property if they deem you get the honor of hosting this OLF.
Ban together. As one County, as one region. fight.
Write to Dole, Burr, Butterfield. Get State Senator Jones working with you, he is there. Keep him engaged.
When it comes to our representatives, write to them. If your bored and cant work in the yard, go to their web site and write a letter stating you do not wish this OLF and you feel that the Navy is not treating you fairly. Keeping this OLF on their front burner is a good thing. They monitor what is sent them. Sometimes they even answer you! But they are tracking what you say. Keep it civil, clean, and on target. State you do not wish to have an OLF in your county. They are counting comments, for and against. When they have to make a decision, they will ask OLF, how many for and how many against......Please, as a county, make sure you let them know, against.
i've not followed this very closely. today i found a flyer in our brake room at work. it listed this site. just curious. is there a reason the navy can't use one of the army bases that are being closed convert it to thier purposes, or just use Langley?
Nope... no good reason anyway. The Navy has provided all kinds of reasons why Fort Pickett won't work including it's too far away... even though the sites in VA aren't much closer and their former record of decision site (Site C) in Washington was definitely going to be a haul.
The arguement for using Langley is it already has a function and is >performing training for the Air Force. To expect that the Air Force will >willingly accept the mess the Navy made and desire to have the additional >noise and complaints these planes are going to generate is a huge stretch. >The Air Force is miles ahead of the Navy on their community relations. They >know they are about to have a big problem with the F-22 and they do not want >to also tell the people of Newport News that we are going to help the Navy >and Virginia Beach by being the normal OLF site for the Navy to bounce and >train at. Aint gonna happen. > >The Air Force fields typically do not have a dual runway system as found on >Navy master jet base sites. Look at Cecil Field, near Jacksonville, Oceana, >Kingsville Tx, Lamoore California. Google map search. These are the primary >master jet bases or once were master jet bases for the Navy. They have the >dual-parallel runways. One of these runways is for take off and landings >for the mission packages. The other runway is for doing FCLP or touch and go >operations at the master jet base to augment the OLF site. > >The Navy effectively has a 2nd OLF at Oceana. The only problem with Oceana >performing FCLP or touch and go operations is the encroachment at that field >makes the training either to dangerous for the civilian population as >described at the scoping meetings, or the training is not realistic and >providing the pilots an accurate presentation of what to expect at the >carrier. > >Either way, our pilots are not getting the training our pilots deserve at >the master jet base. This was identified at 2005 BRAC and the Navy also >identified this with their inputs to BRAC when they kept MCAS Beaufort from >closing for the operational flexibility that site provides the east coast >and because of the uncertainty about the viability of Oceana. > >As far as using an old army base etc, it would be fiesable, but just like >any OLF site, the locals will fight it. If the army base is already closed, >and now the Navy uses it to move the noise and training from Oceana to that >site with little to no economic impact, that community will fight this move. >They had the Army, and the govt (via a BRAC), took away all them jobs, etc. >That community is not going to with open arms take on VB and the Navy's >self-created problem and desire to host an OLF site that provides only 62 >jobs. > >This OLF is a problem that the Navy has to properly address. Making >communities point fingers at each other is not the proper way of fixing this >problem. Fixing Oceana or finding a new master jet base and enumerating all >the requirements of being the host city for the master jet base is required. > >Now if a community wants this OLF as Adm. Anderson stated some communities >would be FIGHTING for this OLF, then let them have it. > >As for Gates County, I am relatively sure this county is not fighting to >host this site.
This post was emailed to iwillhelp@citizensagainstolf.com by NCguy.
Citizens Against OLF is a local, grassroots, nonpartisan organization dedicated to stopping the Navy from building an OLF (outlying landing field) in northeastern North Carolina. The Navy has learned a lot in battling the citizens of Beaufort and Washington counties. We have learned a lot, as well. Our goal is to keep an OLF from coming to Northeastern NC and to tell the country of the devastating effects that placing an OLF in this area will have on the environment, on livelihoods, on property values, and on the quality of life. The Navy's own documentation says "an OLF is not required". Please help us save our county. Visit us at www.citizensagainstolf.com
11 comments:
All Gares County residents must ban together and present a united opposition to OLF. We have at least a 1 in 5 chance of having our quiet and peaceful way of life destroyed by the NAVY placing an OLF in the Sandbanks area. If we become passive in our resistance the odds will go way up. Don't let OLF happen in Gates County!
I have been very dissatisfied with the answeres from our elected officials. Many are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They want to encourage a relationship with the Navy but also do not want voters to know that they are doing so. We need to call and write and let them know that votes count. Lieutenant Governor Beverly Perdue's office could care less.... isn't she running for office?
We need to make more noise.
I was thinking maybe a bulk mailer to the entire Gates County area with letters or templates with self addressed envelopes to all the contacts would help get people signing and mailing letters out?? There are tons of people out here that haven't even heard of it yet. If we can spam these elected officials with letters it might make a dent?? If we spent $1 per info packet and managed to bulk mail the most at risk areas it may be money well spent. Signs are great and all that ..but the big wigs in office don't come out here and see our yard signs or out t-shirts. But they may notice a hand full of protest letters on their desk on a daily basis for months and months. Helping the people put these together will get a ton of people mailing them... and most of the people who don't know about the OLF yet don't know what a computer is let alone have internet access. So this could get results from many people yet to learn what they can do to help.
In a letter received 3/12/08 from Lieutenant Governor Beverly Perdue she said "I continue to be supportive of an Outlying Landing Field in North Carolina, but I do not believe it should be forced on a community that does not want it." The Navy has selected TWO prospective sites in North Carolina. The citizens at both sites are very firm in there opposition to OLF. Why does she still support the Navy wasting taxpayers money for the enviromental studies etc. that they are doing. We must continue to inform her and all are representatives that they work for us, the citizens, who elected them and can throw them out of office.
This is a link to a blog in the Virginia Pilot concerning OLF in Gates County. Please log on and post your comments and concerns. Some of the posts go a little off subject. Read posts from bottom to top.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/03/olf-no-help-nc
WHEN THE NAVY BEGINS FLYING OVER THE PROPOSED OLF SIGHTS AT 600 FEET THE CITIZENS WILL NOT GET A REAL EXAMPLE OF THE JET NOISE BECAUSE THE JETS WILL BE FLYING SLOWER THAN NORMAL AND THEY WILL NOT BE LANDING AND TAKING OFF WHICH WOULD INVOLVE MORE NOISE AT GROUND LEVEL PLUS WHEN THEY TAKE OFF AGAIN THEY WILL BE AT FULL POWER. HEARING THE ENTIRE PROCESS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE REAL NOISE IMPACT.IF ANYONE EVER HAS LIKE I HAVE YOU WILL NEVER FORGET IT.
This is an e mail in response to my questioning Delegate Marshall's comment at the shad planking that the Navy is not yet sure the new joint task strike fighter will be at Oceana. Va Pilot letter to the editor 5-18-08.
MR. Yahn,
THank you for your kind comments.
My original letter to the Plot was longer (see below).
I don't have documentation, but my parents have told me of all the WW II
accomodations civilans made for the War effort.
I am working with an experienced BRAC attorney on this project, Barry Steinberg, formerly a JAG officer.
Here is the letter:
A recent Pilot editorial was only partially correct in relaying my views on a proposal to build an outlying landing field in one or more southern Virginia counties.
I said at the recent Shad Plank fest that the Navy, which at this point has NOT determined that Oceana will even be eligible for stationing the new joint strike fighter, is premature in looking for a landing field for planes that may never be stationed at Oceana.
Until the Navy makes that decision, and makes it irrevocably, eminent domain takings are premature.
What local public officials do or fail to do does affect others, as is evident from the complete failure of Virginia Beach officials to control residential growth near Oceana’s flight paths. Taking private property for a public purpose, especially land held in families for generations should only be done as a last resort, for a clear public purpose, and then only when all options have been thoroughly thought through.
That has not been the case with OLF. But hey, this is only a quarter of a billion dollars to take some farmers’ land, and in Washington, what is that? How about a real cheap solution? Did the Navy consider buying window blinds for homes around Fentress OLF in Chesapeake? Surely, Virginians are patriotic enough and concerned about the waste of tax resources to make this accommodation. WW II Americans painted street lights so enemy pilots could not ID targets.
No one challenges the ability, skill and dedication of our Armed Forces to execute national security missions. But our Constitution provides for civilian control and oversight of America’s military including weapons systems or real property acquisition, and ultimately the conduct and goals, though not the day to day operations of a war.
For example, the US led Multi-National Iraq Command could not demonstrate accountability that weapons and associated services were actually delivered to the Iraq Security Forces, and the Pentagon’s Inspector General November, 07 report found no “reasonable assurance that Iraq Security Forces Fund achieved the intended results, that resources were used in a manner consistent with the mission, and that the resources were protected from waste and mismanagement.” Translation, terrorists, or dissidents fomenting civil war in Iraq could have received US paid for weapons.
That is not all, Congress’s own General Accountability Office reviewed 95 weapons programs in 2007 and disclosed in April, 08 weapons system cost overruns of $295 Billion. DOD will invest roughly $900 Billion by 2013 on weapons systems. Every federal tax dollar wastefully spent is one dollar less to spend in the war on terror or social security beneficiaries.
The GAO found that NONE of the systems met “the best practices standards for mature technologies, stable design, and mature production processes—all prerequisites for achieving planned cost, schedule, and performance outcomes. … This lack of disciplined systems engineering affects DOD’s ability to develop sound, executable business cases for programs.”
Failure of Congress to exercise oversight of ballooning weapon’s systems and procurement costs constitutes a real threat to families, to real property ownership, and to national security because it makes citizens less supportive of defense spending.
Congress needs to realize that citizens are not bottomless ATM machines.
Delegate Bob Marshall (R- Prince William/Loudoun)
Republican Candidate, US Senate
Hello all,
I have been involved with this OLF issue for a few years. At one point, the 60 dB DNL contour line was slated to be less then a mile from my house.
I lived in Virginia Beach during the 1990s when that city was fighting for the planes of Cecil Field. At that time, I questioned the wisdom being displayed by the local government for begging for such a noisy plane and for placing those planes at Oceana when there was already a movement about noise and planes brewing. I lived inside what would be the 60 dB DNL contour line, it was noisy and for us in NC, it will be noisier as the ambient noise level is much lower then found in VB.
I did not realize when I bought my house that an OLF was this close to me. I went to a meeting sponsored by the Perquimans County. I got involved.
I have had the opportunity to read the Navy's NEPA process studies. I have studied them.
The Navy chose to look to other sites, or softer targets. An OLF will not help your community no matter what incentive package is presented by the Navy.
Think about it, part of the jobs being offered by the Navy is gate guard and fire fighter. The Navy is claiming that those jobs will pay $68,000 (plus benefits). Who beliefs that a gate guard will be getting that kind of money? The Navy thinks you will. when these gate guards were slated for my county, they were only going to get
$20,000 avg/year. Once people started talking "incentives" the price of these jobs started to climb. The FEIS had 50 jobs for $1 million. At the 18 Sept site unveiling, the price went up to $58,000 and now at the scoping meeting, its up to $68,000 (plus benefits). This is the kind of stuff the Navy will do. From 2003 to 2008, these gate guards have gotten one heck of a pay raise and they have not worked one hour!
Some things to watch out for with the Navy. They will change their story frequently. They will provide little information. They can engage in questions, but are good for about 2 maybe 3 questions, then you will have exceeded their knowledge level. They will use terms interchangeably on you, such as dB and dB DNL. If you are also using those terms, but are out of context, they will not correct you, but allow you to stumble on answering your questions knowing the terms are wrong.
When you do ask questions and take them beyond their knowledge level, they will try to get away from you, or as they told me, I am through with you.
Right now, you have one of two opportunities to ask the Navy questions. Because the Navy failed to provide any data or information at the scoping meeting, ask any and every question you can think of. Write it down and submit it. you can do it at http://www.olfeis.com/comment.aspx until 7 June.
The second opportunity will be when the Navy presents you with the DEIS in two years. If the Navy does what they historically do, you will be given 45 days to digest and comment upon numerous documents and many pages of information. The Navy will bury so much information and bombard you with it that you will not digest it all. They will then say, well, you had your chance, and you did not ask that.....
From the FEIS, pg 12-1. An OLF is not required if most or all of the super hornet aircraft are homebased at Oceana. Yet the Navy insists that they now need a second OLF. The Navy did not present your community with anything that would counter that statement.
The Navy has no plan or desire to correct the problems found around Oceana and Fentress. They just want to take your property if they deem you get the honor of hosting this OLF.
Ban together. As one County, as one region. fight.
Write to Dole, Burr, Butterfield. Get State Senator Jones working with you, he is there. Keep him engaged.
When it comes to our representatives, write to them. If your bored and cant work in the yard, go to their web site and write a letter stating you do not wish this OLF and you feel that the Navy is not treating you fairly. Keeping this OLF on their front burner is a good thing. They monitor what is sent them. Sometimes they even answer you! But they are tracking what you say. Keep it civil, clean, and on target. State you do not wish to have an OLF in your county. They are counting comments, for and against. When they have to make a decision, they will ask OLF, how many for and how many against......Please, as a county, make sure you let them know, against.
i've not followed this very closely. today i found a flyer in our brake room at work. it listed this site. just curious. is there a reason the navy can't use one of the army bases that are being closed convert it to thier purposes, or just use Langley?
frankkb
Nope... no good reason anyway. The Navy has provided all kinds of reasons why Fort Pickett won't work including it's too far away... even though the sites in VA aren't much closer and their former record of decision site (Site C) in Washington was definitely going to be a haul.
The arguement for using Langley is it already has a function and is
>performing training for the Air Force. To expect that the Air Force will
>willingly accept the mess the Navy made and desire to have the additional
>noise and complaints these planes are going to generate is a huge stretch.
>The Air Force is miles ahead of the Navy on their community relations. They
>know they are about to have a big problem with the F-22 and they do not want
>to also tell the people of Newport News that we are going to help the Navy
>and Virginia Beach by being the normal OLF site for the Navy to bounce and
>train at. Aint gonna happen.
>
>The Air Force fields typically do not have a dual runway system as found on
>Navy master jet base sites. Look at Cecil Field, near Jacksonville, Oceana,
>Kingsville Tx, Lamoore California. Google map search. These are the primary
>master jet bases or once were master jet bases for the Navy. They have the
>dual-parallel runways. One of these runways is for take off and landings
>for the mission packages. The other runway is for doing FCLP or touch and go
>operations at the master jet base to augment the OLF site.
>
>The Navy effectively has a 2nd OLF at Oceana. The only problem with Oceana
>performing FCLP or touch and go operations is the encroachment at that field
>makes the training either to dangerous for the civilian population as
>described at the scoping meetings, or the training is not realistic and
>providing the pilots an accurate presentation of what to expect at the
>carrier.
>
>Either way, our pilots are not getting the training our pilots deserve at
>the master jet base. This was identified at 2005 BRAC and the Navy also
>identified this with their inputs to BRAC when they kept MCAS Beaufort from
>closing for the operational flexibility that site provides the east coast
>and because of the uncertainty about the viability of Oceana.
>
>As far as using an old army base etc, it would be fiesable, but just like
>any OLF site, the locals will fight it. If the army base is already closed,
>and now the Navy uses it to move the noise and training from Oceana to that
>site with little to no economic impact, that community will fight this move.
>They had the Army, and the govt (via a BRAC), took away all them jobs, etc.
>That community is not going to with open arms take on VB and the Navy's
>self-created problem and desire to host an OLF site that provides only 62
>jobs.
>
>This OLF is a problem that the Navy has to properly address. Making
>communities point fingers at each other is not the proper way of fixing this
>problem. Fixing Oceana or finding a new master jet base and enumerating all
>the requirements of being the host city for the master jet base is required.
>
>Now if a community wants this OLF as Adm. Anderson stated some communities
>would be FIGHTING for this OLF, then let them have it.
>
>As for Gates County, I am relatively sure this county is not fighting to
>host this site.
This post was emailed to iwillhelp@citizensagainstolf.com by NCguy.
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